Does Profanity Have a Place?

[kerlines]

I have often wondered why The Rocky Horror Picture Show included the one line: "A mental mind-f### can be nice." It is the only swear word that I know of in the whole show, and it's not like the line is essential to the story... it is just kind of there. Was there much more profanity that was censored out? And if so, why leave this in? If anyone can answer me or in fact has a view on the place of profanity... respond away!

[Emma Rehn]

I'm not sure exactly how I feel about profanity (in fiction, I'm assuming that's what we're talking about?) In some cases it fits, like characters who would realistically use it - in some movies and television it can be conspicuous when a character chooses more polite words than their characterisation suggests they should.

I read a similar post/comments from the perspective of young adults on profanity in books, on the State Library of Victoria's Inside a Dog website: www.insideadog.com.au/blog/youre-voice-francesca-swear-words - while similar, it has the added issue of when profanity should be included in books for younger readers, and how those readers feel about it!

[dada]

Well, this is a great topic. I say - if we are to mirror life then, yes, at times people explete deletives in tirades. If it is the situation then it may be called for - how about a scene where a prostitute has just been robbed or a wife is sick of being left at home with the sick kids while the husband goes fishing again 'to fill up the freezer' and she knows he is skiving off. javascript:add("%20:o")
As we are writing for a general audience then maybe we have to tone the tirade down, or reword it or hint at it because our words can be seen by anyone.

Overall i think profanity has a place in fiction as does racial abuse, agism, sexism, bullying, torture - but not for the sake of it but to show - the real world - and to point out better ways of doing things. if you wanted to write a short story about the recent incident where an Aboriginal AFL player was insulted then you would have to include the insult. i got pulled up once for using 'the blacks should have the pearls' in a speech by a lugger fleet owner. However I had cleared this already with an indigenous group and it was clear that they thought I could convey it as it might have happened and had no problem with it. If you were going to write about child abuse or anything else, then you have to convey it like it is - or stick to puppies and kittens as is your want. Profanity etc should be labelled so the reader is not shocked, like going to a movie, you want to know if it is going to include a chainsaw massacre with blood and bikie chains cussing or if it is an uplifting love story with kissing and slowmo on the beach. javascript:add("%20:-*")

[philipnewey]

I think if you are writing any kind of realistic fiction you have to include some swearing if the character calls for it... and how many people don't swear sometimes? I think it is interesting what people consider profanity from one era to another. Strictly speaking, profanity only refers to the abuse of religious language. How many people today would consider "God!" a profanity; or even "Jesus Christ!" but they are profanities in the strict sense. "Bloody" is too (By Our Lady - possibly, anyway - such etymologies are always disputed). "Fuck" and "shit" are not. "Shit" is a perfectly good word for excrement that really only becomes a swear word because of our finicky squeamishness about bodily processes. I suspect the same is true of "swear" words about sex: they become swear words because of the attitude that all bodily processes are somehow dirty or corrupt.

[Sally McDonald]

I agree with all of you above. It seems to me that a character or the 'voice' of the narrator will dictate whether there will be profanity in a fictional piece. I propose we all write a short piece showing the way a character or narrator would use profanity. We could post it here on this thread.

[kerlines]

Good idea Sally: I am cheating a little... this is a scene from my manuscript: two cops are interacting

Butler pushes past him and rounds on Tom.
‘Well?’
‘Butler. Good to see you too.’ Tom starts. ‘It looks as though it is a hit and run – Dr Nordon was leaving from work.’
Butler drew long on the last of his cigarette.
‘You know him?’
‘I know of him – good man.’
‘Where is he now?’
‘They took him inside – he’s in pretty bad shape. I’d be guessing he’d be lucky to see the morning.’
It’s odd listening to people talk about me. I’m not yet used to it. Butler breathes evenly out the last of the smoke, blowing it into the dark night. He grits slowly, ‘You want to get your picture on the news?’
‘Sorry Sir?’
‘You want to be on T.V?’
‘No Sir.’
‘Then tell me why every fucking reporter has a clear shot directly into the God damn crime scene?’

[arunavee]

The characters in a novel are human too - they should be allowed to swear. I guess, though, there should be some kind of a limit on how many and how often such words can be used .

[nadiamead]

I think any kind of writing device should be considered as seasoning. A sprinkle here and there enhances the overall flavour. A heavy handed approach kills all taste.

[Sally McDonald]

Kerrie, the use of profanity in your piece is completely realistic. You wouldn't expect a cop in that situation not to swear.

[dada]

Would it be right to fully write every profanity a character would utter, say a pretty hard-nosed truckie or someone who swears like a trooper, or should it be partly written and suggested at. In other words is it necessary to put true real every word on the page or just let the reader 'get it'?

Like:
he is holding the knife up to the sun. The glint runs down the blade as he checks it for nicks.
You are not going fishing again? You arsehole, son of a biatch, dickhead. Go! And don't fucking come back empty-handed and expect a root." she shoves him as she abuses himjavascript:add("%20:o")


Or is it better to write:
A string of invective ran out of her mouth. he knew his mother and father were married so he ignored her. he wasn't really any of those other things she said. he vowed to come back with a load of fish and spend the night in her loving armsjavascript:add("%20:")

I go for the second piece - but the first bit is what the girl might say

That's just rough out of my head but let me know what you think

[Sally McDonald]

Interesting point Diane and well shown. It seems to me that both examples have a place. I don't really swear much myself so I don't if people actually link so many curse words together (as in the first example), but a few strong words uttered in anger SHOWS the anger better than description would. (As in, 'a string of invective ran out of her mouth...'). Thanks for an interesting point. I like your middle of the road idea of partly writing the profanity and then suggesting at the rest.